ALRIGHT, let’s just be honest. This last week was INSANE. I spent Sunday night gasping and pointing and gripping Josh’s arm and shaking my fist.
And then I scrolled through Twitter and found that my thoughts were not quite mirrored by friends watching along.
So! Although I hadn’t anticipated this being a regular deal, let’s talk about it, mmkay? Because I’m just dying to.
More than voice my own opinions, I’d just like to hear yours. But, to get that conversation ball rolling, I’ll toss out a few things I’m thinking.
Because. It was a big week.
Pete proved just how slimy he can be (though we already knew that in Season 1, when he essentially asked the same of Trudy). Lane continues in his weird embezzlement scheme which, I’ll be honest, doesn’t interest me to follow closely enough to know what’s really going on there. Don and Megan have their weird, quasi-healthy but sort of strained and off relationship that grates at me. I have plenty more thoughts on all of this, but none of it is the focus, of course.
PEGGY AND JOAN.
Peggy and Joan have developed into foils. Both are intelligent women stuck in a system that sets them at a disadvantage at the outset. As eighties-power-suit as it sounds, they’re working girls trying to cut it in a man’s world. Of course, the difference being their methods of trying to do so.
Peggy is young and not too closely acquainted with this broken system where women aren’t welcome (unless they’re pouring someone a drink or shaking an ass). She refuses to be squelched! She gets a bit ahead by pure merit of her brainpower and hard work, and then naively assumes that her brains and work ethic will continue to be rewarded. In her naivete, she expects that being as capable as the guys will lead to the same recognition as the guys. We’ve watched her spin her wheels in frustration, trying to achieve the success that she feels she rightfully deserves.
Joan, on the other hand, is aware of how things work and uses it to her advantage. No less intelligent, she works within the system, manipulating it to beat the guys at their own game. While Peggy futilely strives, Joan effortlessly glides.
And that right there is why this episode was so disheartening for me. It might be easy to see Joan’s decision as simply taking her refined method to the next level- just working the system to get ahead. I’ve heard friends proclaim their excitement to see Joan’s “empowerment.” But, this isn’t just another example of Joan using whatever tools she has in her arsenal. Joan isn’t in control here. She isn’t “beating the guys at their own game.” She’s being used in a number of ways. “Empowerment” doesn’t seem to quite fit a situation wherein one man makes a demand and a group of other men decide meeting this demand would be profitable for them.
So, yes. In a complicated sort of way, I walked away feeling glad that Joan is in a position of power. That she found a way to struggle to the top. But that victory felt so hollow and a bit hard for me to swallow.
I really appreciated the way Joan’s decision was butted against Peggy’s. It made me think about the development of the characters and their diverging career paths. Plenty more thoughts on that as well.
BUT. I want to hear what YOU think! How did you take Joan’s decision? Peggy’s? Were you surprised? Excited? Saddened? Angered?
Your Comments | Add a Comment
May 29, 2012 5:51 am
ahhh. I can’t seem to get mad men over here so I will have to wait. But I did want to say: DUDE, you are SUCH an English teacher. For real.
May 29, 2012 10:48 am
Hahaaa. Do you have Netflix, miss? That’s how I caught up (I didn’t start watching til this year).
May 29, 2012 4:16 pm
You can even get the latest episodes from itunes (pro tip: a season pass is cheaper than buying by the episode, and new episodes download automatically). I refuse to pay for cable, so I only watch electronically.
May 29, 2012 8:29 am
Ok! So much to say. Trying to sort out how to approach.
I don’t think we can compare Joan to Peggy in a 1:1 ratio. Peggy doesn’t have Joan’s uh, assets, and just isn’t going to be put in the same scenarios by men/life/society.
What’s that 70s saying? “When women use sex as a weapon, it’s because they desperately need a weapon” -something like that. Joan is kicking ass using what she has. The situation sucks. Her entire life of being a sex object (and, don’t forget, raped by someone she trusted) has led up to this shitty moment and if she can come out at least somewhat ahead for it, good for her.
I told you a little bit about my modern experiences, but have been dealing with this stuff forever. It’s gotten better as I’ve gotten older and uglier, but for a long, long time, it didn’t matter how smart I was – I was hired, judged on, and promoted because of my looks. The end. There was NOTHING I could do about it, even if I busted my ass being the smartest and best. What it came down to, what was talked about, was my looks. It made me fucking furious, because the only thing I valued myself on were my brains. Alas.
In the end, I only quit one job, because 1. I needed a job and 2. IT WAS THE SAME EVERYWHERE.
So yeah. I think more than acting as foils to each other, the show is realistically portraying 2 sides of women’s struggle – being a sex object has one set of issues, being plain & smart another. I don’t think their methods are conscious choices as much as the roles society has already given them.
May 29, 2012 10:58 am
I think we sort of agree. Ish.
Peggy definitely does not look like Joan. But I think we have seen her actively make the choice to disregard her role as a possible sex object. (I’m thinking of Season 1 when she’s upset by one of the guys’ advances and she goes to the bathroom to cry, sees other girls crying, and it’s implied that she determines no, she will not be one of these crying in the bathroom.)
Joan does the same, but differently. She determines not to be overrun by the sexism, but instead of negating her sex, she amps it up and controls it. I’m not saying Joan isn’t smart or that she stands a chance of being known for anything other than her boobs, but she takes that knowledge (that she’ll be known for her body) and uses it to her advantage. (We’ve seen her actively make this choice in a more recent season, when one of the guys makes dirty drawings of her and Peggy rushes to her defense using what she has (brains, authority). Joan explains how she would have gained her own revenge, using her boobs AND her brains.) I guess what I’m saying is, sure. They look differently, but that doesn’t negate their choices in the matter. And, up until this episode, I enjoyed seeing Joan take the sucky hand she was dealt and work with it. But this time, her hands were tied and it was heartbreaking.
(Re: two sides, I think that’s a good point and it definitely is multi-layered. Kerry mentioned that Joan and Peggy could also be seen as representing different generational perspectives.)
May 29, 2012 3:01 pm
Hmm, but what I’m saying is that Peggy has the choice to negate her sexuality, and Joan just DOESN’T. She has to use it, or be used. And that’s a real thing that happens to women.
May 29, 2012 3:45 pm
Yes I agree! Which is what sets Joan apart from all of the women in the office- not just the ones who look like Peggy. There are other curvy pretty ladies at SCDP who are used, and Joan determines not to be such.
In this situation though, she didn’t have a choice. She was used no matter how many people say “tell her she can say no.”
May 29, 2012 3:47 pm
Agree. And I was screaming at the screen the entire episode. Sigh.
May 29, 2012 10:33 am
As you know from our emails, I found absolutely no empowerment in Joan’s situation. She was cornered, left without a true “choice” in the matter, given that all of the men in control of the situation had already made up their minds about her value, about her “options,” and about how much she could benefit.
And also, I think many people overlooked the fact that the whole scenario was based on two very significant lies. Joan didn’t enter into the transaction with accurate information because Lane manipulated it when he he approached her privately, and because Pete and Lane both let her believe that Don was in agreement.
So, Joan made a decision based off of false/strained information set up to benefit/save the ass of someone else, and I think if she knew either of those things, she would have made a different decision (as evidenced by Christina Hendricks’ flawless wordless gestures in the scenes with Don at her apartment, and in the office the following day). There’s very little empowerment in that.
May 29, 2012 11:01 am
Yes! I think it also adds to the sense of being bullied in that she thought ALL of the men wanted her to do it. Why would knowing that one man was on her side change anything? I think it’s because she wouldn’t have felt as cornered- as forced- if she had known they weren’t hanging up on her.
May 29, 2012 11:18 am
I am shocked to hear anyone would call Joan’s actions “empowerment.” Since when does empowerment involve selling one’s body at the suggestion/benefit of men? It was a way to get ahead and Joan seized it, sure, but that’s it. When she was being decorated with jewels and getting undressed, she did not look like a woman empowered and usually Joan can look empowered when she is sharpening a pencil. No, she was ashamed, even if she is proud of how she used it to get her where she wanted to be (which, ironically, was just one more way she was being used by a man – ugh… the whole thing makes me cringe).
I did find the whole Don not approving/would Joan have done it if she knew storyline really interesting. I’m not actually convinced it was Don’s opinion that really mattered to Joan. When she heard about the partners talking about her, she didn’t ask what Don said – she asked about Roger. Roger remained fairly uninvolved for the rest of the show but I found that interesting.
I also really hope that Peggy remains part of the show. I would really miss her if she dropped off completely.
May 29, 2012 11:25 am
Agreed re: Don vs Roger. But it seemed meaningful to her that Don disagreed if only because it meant SOMEONE disagreed.
May 29, 2012 12:37 pm
I haven’t heard anything contract-wise that would imply that Elisabeth Moss is off the show. Peggy will be around.
May 29, 2012 1:38 pm
Well this just goes to show that I shouldn’t tweet every fleeting thought that comes to my head. :)
My “All hail liberated Joan!” (or something) tweet was not at all an embrace of the absolutely disgusting treatment of Joan from every single SCDP partner. Pete was, of course, the slimiest but every one of them behaved poorly. Roger and Lane were clearly much more concerned about the financial impacts of the “payment” (due to embezzlement and alimony, respectively) than the emotional blackmail of Joan. Bert was utterly clueless, trusting Pete to reassure Joan that she could “back out if she wanted to” (like anyone actually believed that was possible). And finally, Don is still sort of clueless that the firm’s center of gravity is no longer firmly planted below his feet. Pete rightly pointed out that the conversation no longer ends when Don leave the room.
Instead, I think Joan’s rise to partner (though decidedly junior partner) reminds me of Helen Gurley Brown’s rise at Cosmo (becoming editor-in-chief in 1965). Gurley Brown unabashedly traded in glamor, sexist notions of women’s sexuality, and continually reinforced fears to make Cosmo the magazine it is. A flatter reading would underscore the lesson of what’s lost in the rise to the top. Matthew Weiner is never so one dimensional.
I was watching Sunday’s episode with several friends. One commented on wanting to see how Pete would process Joan as a voting equal. I was much more curious to see how Peggy would react. It’s very clear that Peggy feels like she’s played by a set of reasonable enough rules but been denied progress. To have Joan be partner but not her (even under despicable circumstances) would be a pointed barb. Now I’m curious to see how and if Peggy and Joan’s relationship changes now that they are at different firms.
May 29, 2012 2:34 pm
Haha if you did tweet that you weren’t alone! My twitter feed was abuzz.
I was wondering the same! Someone remarked before that Peggy has a morally self righteous view of Joan’s behavior. I’m not sure if I see it that way, but I can’t imagine how she’d react to knowledge of what went on.
May 29, 2012 9:10 pm
I love Peggy, but she is self-righteous about EVERYTHING. In a way that belongs exclusively to relatively successful 25-year-olds. And only got more self-righteous and arrogant this season. I’ve kind of loved it, especially in her dealings with Roger.
May 29, 2012 1:47 pm
I actually think Megan’s story line has significance here and acts as a nice complement to Joan’s and Peggy’s. In the scene where she gets the call back and the director says Sweetheart, step forward and turn around, you can see her obvious discomfort. Here’s a woman who isn’t shy about expressing her sexuality (zoobie zoo) but who we’ve seen, over the last few episodes, really make a go at getting ahead on her own merit and talent. I think for an episode about women (The Other Woman) and the choices we have to make to get ahead, hers was a nice nod to the struggle. We don’t see much struggle with Peggy or Joan. They have their way of dealing with the world at large. Not that their choices are easy, of course.
I’ve actually been thinking a lot about the women of Mad Men. This show may be called Mad MEN but it’s really the women who are the social commentary of the show. Them, and of course, Don. I love how they use the women to highlight the struggle going on in Don.
May 29, 2012 2:29 pm
Yes! Megan’s story didn’t culminate this week the way Peggy’s or Joan’s did, but her complicated need to submit to the sexism of those meat market auditions IN ORDER TO prove her independence to Don- so interesting!!
I’m interested to see how that continues to play out.
May 29, 2012 2:56 pm
Thanks for bringing up Megan! I was a bit disappointed that all of the recaps I’ve read in the last few days have failed to mention that bite-sized storyline this week. Because it’s such an interesting counterpoint to Peggy/Joan – no fuss, no muss, no (ok, little) drama – just a grown-ass woman saying “I’m going after what I love, I plan on getting it, deal with it,” and moving on.
Plus, how twilight-zoney was it that for once it was a woman barging into Don’s office to get some sexytime from HIM to make herself feel confident (although, was anyone else kind of ick-ified by what her friend was doing in the boardroom? there’s your unnecessary flesh-shot, Liz!)
May 29, 2012 10:20 pm
Unnecessary, indeed. Sigh.
I think the Megan thing is overlooked because it’s still in repeat mode. I won’t eat sherbet just because you tell me too, you can’t come home late without calling, I’m going to audition and you need to support me… Megan keeps making the same kinds of stands over and over for herself, and it hasn’t yet really impacted her standing (as evidenced by her needing to make them over and over).
May 30, 2012 2:21 pm
So much to say, so much to say, but I have to limit this comment to one aspect or I will be typing for an hour, and I have this work to do so I can pay rent and stuff. Bah!
My friend mentioned to me this morning how, everything else aside, she found it completely outrageous that a business executive would ever make a business deal based on sex. So we started talking about how the client/vendor relationship can resemble a john/prostitute relationship, and how sex is wrapped up in power. And it hit me that the Jaguar dude has essentially become the new Lee Garner Jr. of Lucky Strike — remember how Lee Garner wanted Sal, and when Sal didn’t acquiesce he got him fired? THAT’S the power play, right there. The business situation at the firm isn’t actually all that different — at that time, the loss of a client like Lucky Strike would have “shut off their lights,” as Don puts it, and now, SCDP is scrambling for another big client. The difference between Sal’s and Joan’s situations is that a romantic interlude between Sal and Lee wasn’t ever officially on the table as a business deal, and that Sal never had value/leverage/currency at Sterling Cooper like Joan has as SCDP. He was a throwaway, a casualty — “I guess I was just supposed to do whatever he wanted?” he asked Don right before Don fired him, and Don didn’t disagree. Whatever necessary to keep the client, to keep the business, right? So Joan has to make the same type of decision, but the professional outcomes for her are vastly different, and the interpersonal outcomes with her coworkers are vastly different.
What’s NOT different, though? Each were used, and each were hung out to dry by men who ostensibly should have helped them.
May 30, 2012 2:55 pm
Ah, Lyn! I immediately thought of the Lee/Sal situation, too, but read it differently! Sal (and Don, too, if we remember) are expected to have sex for the sake of the business (even sex that was considered taboo for its time), because they’re men. “She has a husband in Vietnam and a baby at home!” Yes. And how many of these men we see sleeping all over the place have wives and kids at home? But there’s a different set of rules, a different expectation for women. A special kind of misogyny. The crack in my logic is, of course, Pete’s request for Trudy to sleep with a publisher in season 1 for the sake of his career. But maybe the rules are different if the man of the house is making the request.
I don’t know, though! I could be very much off-base. But the Sal situation (and Don with Bobbie Barrett) came to mind for me, also. I like your read of it.
Jun 1, 2012 8:35 pm
The interesting thing to me with the Sal situation that was the same as both the Joan one and the Trudy one in season 1 was the idea that it’s okay to sell someone out if they aren’t virtuous – Trudy wasn’t a virgin for Pete, Joan obviously isn’t and there was and still is a stereotype that gay men are very promiscuous. There’s a judgement there – if you’re a slut, there’s nothing wrong with whoring you out. I really wish there were some contrasting situation I could think of to sort of “prove” that this is true, but I do think it’s interesting that Trudy’s lack of virginity was referenced by Pete specifically as a reason it was okay to whore her out and Don didn’t just suspect that Sal was gay, he saw him undressed with the guy from the hotel. I think this also plays into how Don sees himself (several times throughout the show different women have referenced his sleeping around and he always takes offense) and of course, his mother was a prostitute.
Jun 2, 2012 8:29 am
I DO remember Pete saying that to Trudy, you’re right! I feel as though the writing is intended to show that not all sex is equal (the way you’re saying the characters perceive it.) Megan is a sexual creature, but twirling in front of three men on a couch is a different story. Joan is sexual, but her Jaguar situation is different. We as viewers know that, but to Pete et al, sex is sex. If it’s cheap to you, why not sell it? And their mindset only underscores the point- sex is NOT all the same.
I’m always intrigued by Don’s perceptions of himself. He wants so desperately to be an honest man (remember the episode with the hobo?), but then does things that seem incredibly contrary to that goal, and then seems to have no self awareness about any of it. (Like you’re saying with how defensive he gets about his sleeping around.)
I think that is exactly what I’ve been missing in these season. I miss Don’s struggle to be a good man and his complicated self-destruction despite that end goal.
May 30, 2012 5:00 pm
No, I think you make a good point — and I had even forgotten about Don’s sex expectations. I think I so strongly associated Sal in with Joanie because both of them seem to have so much more to lose to me than any of the rest. I mean, even if Sal had agreed to have sex with Lee, there’s a big chance it could have ended with his firing anyway — gayness being a thing people were punished for then even more often than they are today. Both Sal and Joan are damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
It feels distinct to me, too, because of where the power lies. Don has surely played the part of a pawn before, but he remains one of the account men. He is one of the game players. The players can ultimately shape their own destinies — even if they lose, they can usually start a new game. Not so with Sal and Joan, who are pieces to play. It all seems more cruel for them.
I almost feel like it was even crueler for Sal, because he didn’t stand to gain anything from sleeping with Lee — had he said yes, he wouldn’t have ever told anyone about it. If we’re working from the assumption that money and title = power, I can then see how Joan’s deal would appear empowering, because she got something tangible in return for her troubles. That’s no definition of empowerment for me, though. Empowerment is being able to create your own situations, not have them foisted on your by others.
May 30, 2012 6:41 pm
I agree about Don being in a completely different position than Sal or Joan. I have to think about it some more, though. Because if we expand beyond sexual bartering, I also think of Lee making demands of Roger at the Christmas party. Just such an interesting, complicated arrangement of power and powerlessness. No question though, Sal and Joan are without a choice and face lose/lose options.
Jun 1, 2012 1:11 am
I waited to read this until after I’d watched the episode, by which time y’all had handled parsing the characters’ decisions and whatnot. So I have only this profound thing to add:
Remember that scene earlier in the season when Pete got punched in the face?
This episode could have been vastly improved by Pete getting punched in the face.
Jun 1, 2012 9:28 am
YES.
Jun 8, 2012 9:55 am
I didn’t understand at all why women on the interwebs were so proud of Joan. She wasn’t empowered at all, she whored herself out for a partnership.